MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

I just bought the new M4 pro with thunderbolt 5, but looks like it doesn't work with any portable monitors. I tried 3 of them using only one cable for both power and signal #portable. It only works if you power up the monitor then the power pass through it and then it can charge the laptop too.


Anyone experienced the same issue or if you have a similar setup can you check to see if is not just me? I also went to the Apple Store to check with a range of M* macs and looks like the only one with this issue is the M4pro w/ tb 5 (tested using both thunderbolt 4&5 cables)


I called the support but they just pass me around for 1h until they hang up eventually without saying goodbye :).


Just want to know if this is software fixable or a hardware issue as I do use this nomad setup quite often.


Thanks.



MacBook Pro 14″

Posted on Nov 14, 2024 07:35 AM

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Posted on Nov 19, 2024 11:54 AM

I already had that hub, I have 15 different thunderbolt cables of varying lengths, I have about 12 USB-C cables, capable of delivering display signals, also varying lengths, I have tested every single one of them and nothing works, and the one factor involved that seems to make the difference is that it is a thunderbolt five port.


every single one of my cables works with thunderbolt four on the M4 Mac mini. But again, as has been said, not a single of my 27 cables works when using the thunderbolt five ports on the M4 Pro Mac mini.


Thanks for your armchair input, but I think I will stick with hard results from my actual tests.


Though I cannot conclusively say that it is SPECIFICALLY because of thunderbolt five, I think we can all agree that something about the thunderbolt five models of the M4 Macs seem to have an issue connect connecting to portable displays and delivering signal.


Could this be a software issue? Maybe. maybe it’s a firmware thing that just needs an update. Could it be something else? Sure. But as of right now, based on every piece of evidence presented, it seems like Macs with thunderbolt five are not able to deliver a display signal along with the power to a portable display without that hub I am using or a similar one as the in between.


I get that in a perfect world, based on how things should be working in theory with thunderbolt five as you have explained in your other comments, it “shouldn’t” be an issue. But, here we are. 🤷‍♂️

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167 replies

Nov 17, 2024 05:35 AM in response to dragos-florin

OK.


That picture shows that the monitor is getting power when attached to the new MBP. It just isn't getting signal. I was under the mistaken impression that the monitor was showing nothing at all, as if it did not have its own power source, and was not getting power from the MBP, either.


That first link leads to a page for several monitors. Yours is appears to be the J5.


The J5 is a 17.3" monitor with 3840x2160 pixel resolution and a 60 Hz refresh rate. It has two USB-C inputs and a HDMI input, plus a downstream Micro USB-B port. The specifications say that it does not have a built-in battery – and that its rated power is 17 watts. The monitor has an IPS panel and 100% coverage of Adobe RGB – both good specifications that don't matter for the purpose of troubleshooting here.


3840x2160 @ 60 Hz is bog-standard and well within the capabilities of your MacBook Pro, whether you use one of the MBP's USB-C ports, or use the MBP's HDMI port.


Here's the manual .


In Chapter 3 of the manual, under Type-C signal transfer, and again under HDMI signal transfer, they say

"Note: 4K monitor needs higher voltage power, for a more stable power supply, it is recommended to use our original PD adapter to power."

In Chapter 6 of the manual, under Q&A, they say

"Q: The monitor keeps switching and flicker, although it connected to outlet for extra power supply.

A: This situation is generally caused by insufficient voltage. Please check whether the factory-packed cables are used, and then check whether an external PD power supply is used. The power consumption of 4K monitor is relatively larger, and an external PD power supply is required."

They also say that the monitor requires at least a 15W power supply, but that their power adapter provides 30W, so that if you use a power bank (external rechargeable battery), one "with output above 30W is recommended."


Part of USB-C Power Delivery is that the power supplier negotiates with the power consumer as to what voltage to offer. The original standard allowed power transfers of up to 5A at up to 20V (up to 100W); the current one allows power transfers of up to 5A at up to 48V (up to 240W).


If I look at the fine print on the bottom of a 29W Apple USB Type-C power adapter, I find the words "Output: 14.5V === 2.0A (USB PD) or 5.2V === 2.4A." Both my MacBook and my iPhone charge off this adapter, but if either was picky enough that they would not accept anything less than 20V, they would be in trouble.


So the highlighted parts of the monitor manual raise some follow-on questions:

  • What "higher voltage" does the monitor expect?
  • What voltage is the old MBP offering?
  • What voltage is the new MBP offering?
  • Could the voltage that the new MBP is offering be high enough to let the screen come on and display that "No signal" message, but not high enough to let the electronics to receive a signal work properly?

Dec 10, 2024 10:06 AM in response to dragos-florin

The original post described a certain hub that solved this problem, in that it at least enabled, without a separate power connection, a direct link between the Thunderbolt 5 port and the USB-C port on the portable monitor. It is very expensive in the UK (currently at time of writing £96 on Amazon).


Does anyone know if this Startech hub works with the same effect? It has USB-C DP Alt Mode which apparently very few hubs have, so I think it might work. However, on Startech's website for the hub, it states the following:


  • USB-C VIDEO OUTPUT: USB-C port (video + data) supports video out to a 4K 60Hz portable or desktop USB-C monitor; NOTES: Computer must support USB-C DP Alt Mode; Power adapter must be connected to PD Pass-Through port to power a USB-C monitor


This makes me think it possibly won't work in the same way that the recommended Selore hub would. Which would be a pity as it's currently £36 cheaper!

Nov 16, 2024 08:56 AM in response to dragos-florin

Remain calm. Don't get distracted by ThunderBolt-5, it simply is not a factor here.


ThunderBolt-5 cables and ports run differently ONLY when each and every device involved is genuine ThunderBolt-5. Otherwise, they are indistinguishable from ThunderBolt 4 and ThunderBolt-3, which are electrically identical and barely different from each other, except by some arcane support for multiple devices on one cable.


When All devices are Thunderbolt-5, the regular baseband data stream (one bit per signaling interval) changes to a modulated signal (3-patterns per signaling interval) for increased speed. Nothing else of substance changes.


when all devices are NOT Thunderbolt-5, it all works as if it were Thunderbolt-3. If connecting only USB devices, it all works as USB devices.


-------

Readers here report that main issue for Bus Powered Displays is that they don't get enough Bus-power using one port.


You can check whether the device is getting all the power it needs by invoking:

 menu > about this Mac > (system report) ...

... and checking this display:


...

Nov 16, 2024 02:58 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Hi Grant, was wondering if you have a portable monitor to test as that is the issue I'm experiencing.


Obviously the monitor is not a thunderbolt 5, but I expected the port to be backwards compatible, Heres a screenshot I took with the monitor connected using a tb5 cable. Then out of curiosity I plugged in a 2nd cable just to test if it is a power issue, the monitor has the pass-through power. Now oddly only with those 2 cables connected in 2 ports the laptop is charging itself 😳.


Again the application is that this setup should be a portable one. If I plug in a power source to the monitor, then all is fine.




[Edited by Moderator]

Nov 16, 2024 10:16 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Thanks for the info Grant, but I can’t seem to find any reports of how much power my monitor is requiring. 


The first picture shows my M2 pro, which although is powering my monitor, the only reports are of a Keyboard requiring 100 mA, and a mouse requiring 100 mA. 


The second picture shows my M4 pro, which shows a keyboard requiring 98 mA. My M4 is connected to the same monitor but is being powered separately. If I was to disconnect the external power I couldn’t see anything even if there was something to see. 


If I click on Thunderbolt/USB4 I get the same result as dragos, No device connected



Nov 17, 2024 02:47 AM in response to Servant of Cats

By all means I'm not refusing to give specs, nor I want to fix myself the problem as I know is nothing I can do, my original question was to see if others having the same setup as mine have the same problem using almost similar type of monitor. I appreciate you're trying to help out, so if you need more specs here's one of the setup I use withs some screens:


This is the monitor: https://www.upe


This is the monitor: https://www.uperfectmonitor.com/products/4k-60hz-monitor bought from https://www.amazon.nl/dp/B09DKKRP49.


Here's an image with MB air M2 using thunderbolt 5 cable:


And MBP M4 same cable: Sequoia 15.2 Beta (24C5079e)


Dec 16, 2024 02:05 PM in response to lindowmac

I connected the Mac mini to the hub using the supplied cable - it's the only way I could connect it.


When I connected the monitor to the hub using the alt DP port, I initially saw this...




Then this...


It was only when I then connected the monitor to the hub with HDMI that it worked!



Bit of a mystery!


Trouble is, this is no better that using the TB5 and HDMI port directly on the Mac mini!



Feb 16, 2025 01:25 PM in response to dragos-florin

I have spent about 16 hours total now trying to find a way to simply be able to connect external displays with just one usb-c cable per display (power and a/v) to my MacBook Pro M4 Max with no success. I can do this with a MacBook Pro M1-4 non-pro/max chip computer without ThunderBolt 5 ports and am so disappointed that this appears no longer to be possible; Apparently the TB5 ports don't provided sufficient power any longer as with my 10+ year old POS MacBook Pro... I have ongoing cases with Apple at the moment but it seems they are just humoring me. Currently, without a docking station, I can only get ONE display to connect as long as I'm providing external power—a second monitor is not permitted. I have sent videos and logs. Seems like a step backwards...


I travel for work and in the airport, I need to be able to function without plugging into an outlet and pack up quickly. Anyone else find a solution? Below is my preferred setup when traveling (really at home even) and was my 14" MacBook Pro M2 with L Limink detachable 14" monitors with only 2 USB-C 4 cables...

MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

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