MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

Sean1397,

Your guess is as good as our's. The first step is to contact AppleCare by phone or reach a genius bar or Authorized Apple Service Center and get a case #.

This is just a user to user forum with Apple moderation.

The number of times in 24 years I've seen Apple moderators actually say they are looking into a problem can fit on one hand.

This issue has been as much an issue with some older Apple displays as third party displays.

There are three places this can break:

1. The thunderbolt bus on the Mac and the kernel extensions addressing them, and any firmware speaking to it, and any differences in the kernel extensions of one operating system versus another. To isolate the operating system issue, downgrading is possible through steps listed on this tip. Energy Saver settings put hard drive to sleep can impact the USB and Thunderbolt bus on Macs, espceially when closing a laptop lid as the bus goes into low power mode. Once in low power mode only a fully powered laptop on restart with the display lid open will give you full power. This is even greater problem with displays powered by the Mac itself with no power of their own.

2.The use of less than optimal cables. Make sure you are using cables that least have the lightning bolt icon on the sheeth. Those without may be straight USB-C cables and those don't have as good a video signal carrier.

3.The thunderbolt bus on the display, and any firmware provided by the display manufacturer. Additionally displays with their own separate power source from the computer are less likely to be flakey with Energy Saver. Consult with the display manufacturer support if any firmware update is planned for supporting Thunderbolt 5.

This can't be exclusive to the TB5 controller as the new M4 Macs have 1 TB4 port too. this should be something apple can address in software. It appears this display is getting power but the display signal is not getting triggered.

Dear Apple, as loyal users we need an official solution or at least an answer from the support and engineers team, we're getting tired of asking for simple fixes like this one.

From a user perspective who mostly uses Macbooks as an option for portable computers with as many cables as possible, we're not requesting something crazy, we're just asking for you to make something work as it used to work since the first M1 chips.

It's so disappointing to see a portable monitor working in an M1 MBP but not in the latest version of your hardware. I know I speak on behalf of many global users, especially on M4 PRO and M4 MAX chips.

Please, treat this issue, and this request with all the respect your users deserve.

This is very highly dissapointing from Apple. As someone who has spent about 75-100k on apple devices over 10 years it's astounding to me that a company can make such great devices and forget to check anything for compatibility. Certainly they thought hey let's check portable monitors.

Anyways I have an Apildella tri monitor with 2 15 inch monitors or maybe 14. Worked great with my M1 macbook pro. Wont work with the Macbook Pro M4. Kind of comical since my M1 screen stopped workign so I guess if I thr0w them all together in a blender it should be perfect.

Anyways are there any dual (so you have 3 monitor) 14 inch or 15 inch screens that work with one cable to M4 Macbook Pros? Seems easier to buy one than figure this out. TY

while i can confirm that the VA1655 works with a single cable, it only supports HIDPI at very low resolution making hardly usable.

I will be getting another monitor today intehill U16ZT and i will report back the results...

dragos-florin wrote:

Here's with a 145w power bank connected, both laptops testes in the same setup and work as expected , monitor using ~50W.

https://discussions.apple.com/content/attachment/53810b76-01b0-4316-a672-5326d730c8ee

Now, I stick with my original question, why the older tb4 can negotiate the power but not the new one? I tested also with a smaller OLED monitor, same issue.

If the monitor worked with the older MBP, using the amount of power that you showed us in your previous photo, you got lucky. That amount of power was well below what the manual monitor said that the monitor wants, even though both MBPs were within their rights to offer that amount of power – or less.

The USB 3.0 standards only call for host ports to offer 900mA of 5V power (i.e., 4.5W), so if the MBP was giving the monitor 12W, whether through PD or through the monitor just taking it anyway, that was well in excess of the amount that the MBP needed to provide as per USB 3.0 specifications.

As for Power Delivery power, I could be mistaken, but I do not believe that either MBP was required to offer any of that at all. Apple advertises that the MBPs can charge over USB-C, not that they charge other devices over it.

Now you are showing us a photo where your portable monitor is drawing 2.49A at 20V – for a power draw of 50W. This from a monitor whose specifications say it uses 17W, and whose manual implies that a 15W supply would be sufficient and a 30W supply would be recommended.

All of the M4 MBP 16-in configurations on Apple's Online Store show three TB5 ports in the configuration. All of the M4 MBP 14-in configurations show three TB4 ports.

VikingOSX wrote:

All of the M4 MBP 16-in configurations on Apple's Online Store show three TB5 ports in the configuration. All of the M4 MBP 14-in configurations show three TB4 ports.

All MacBook Pros with plain M4 chips have three Thunderbolt 4 ports. These are entry-level MacBook Pros and Apple only offers them in the 14" screen size.

All MacBook Pros with M4 Pro and M4 Max chips have three Thunderbolt 5 ports, whether the chassis has a 14" screen or a 16" one. These ports support both Thunderbolt 5 and Thunderbolt 4.

I've added a new thread here for the purpose of finding a portable monitor that is compatible with Thunderbolt 5 macs. Though I also see oliverfromoslo's point, that suggesting suitable monitors in this thread would also help solve the problem.

Servant of Cats,

You ask..."Please provide a link to the Technical Specifications which state that

the M4 Max MacBook Pro will provide large amounts of power – in excess

of the minimums for USB or Thunderbolt ports – to an accessory. I am

looking at the stated specifications, and I see nothing to that effect

there."

I as an impartial observer can understand the consternation some might have about this.

Their older, less expensive equipment is supporting the hardware that their newer hardware is not.

Apple has a history of declaring equipment vintage:

Obtaining service for your Apple product after an expired warranty - Apple Support

And then not offering system upgrades for those equipment eventually making it difficult to find more current software for their Macs.

To buy all these peripherals only to find new equipment no longer supports it is a very hard blow.

It is my firm belief for people who suddenly get surprised because some older hardware is no longer supported, to go both to the manufacturer of that older hardware and ask AppleCare to look into the issue to see if one or the other can offer some firmware update to fix these issues. I wrote this tip to show that this isn't isolated to Apple, but an ongoing issue with standards of USB-C and Thunderbolt across the industry.

USB/Thunderbolt & Energy Saver/Sleep/powe… - Apple Community

Just because the specs do not say something is directly not supported, past history of supports lends to the misimpression they should have continuous support. Calling it a newer Thunderbolt or USB-C lends to the impression it should be able to support what the older Thunderbolt or USB-C did. This is where communication is key. That customers reach out to both Apple Support (AppleCare) and the manufacturers of the devices to find out where the actual support broke down with newer equipment.

up_mambo wrote:

So, what can we infer from these data points?

The Macbook Air has 2 USB4 ports that support : (Charging, DisplayPort, and Thunderbolt3)

•

The M4 Macbook Pro has 3 Thunderbolt 5 (USB-c) ports that support (Charging, DisplayPort and Thunderbolt5)

In those specifications, "charging" means charging the Mac.

Charge your MacBook Air or MacBook Pro - Apple Support

"Your Mac has USB-C ports, and may also have a MagSafe 3 port. If your Mac has both ports, either can be used to charge your battery."

yoavarden,

If you want a fix, start a new topic thread. There are 130 posts in here. If the posts in here do not answer your question, you are better off asking the community as a new thread. It is extremely hard to know who is responding to what in a long thread.

You want to know which make and model monitor works with Thunderbolt 5 on your make and model year of Mac with what model thunderbolt cable. When you get that answer great. Recycle the equipment that doesn't work, and get equipment that does. The manufacturer of your monitor does not know how to keep up with standards if they won't respond to making a new firmware update for your thunderbolt.

The specs page for the M4 Pro/Max states:

Thunderbolt 4 digital video output

* Support for native DisplayPort 1.4 output over USB-C

this is clearly false.

It is still a relevant issue, and it should be addressed by Apple, to say the least. Any update would be appreciated.

[Edited by Moderator]