Final Cut Pro 10.8.1 - problem with HDR videos since upgrading to MacOS Sequoia

I don't do formal HDR work but I've done lots of HDR HLG tests in FCP using an Apple Studio monitor and LG 5k monitor, both connected via Thunderbolt to my M1 Ultra Mac Studio. I've also tested on my M1 Max MacBook Pro 16. I've also uploaded HDR tests to Youtube and Vimeo and tested streaming playback on the above machine.

In general it works OK but Safari support for Youtube HDR is sketchy. It works well on Vimeo and MacOS Firefox works better on Youtube for streaming HDR content.

With those exceptions, in general I haven't seen any problems on recent prior or current versions of MacOS and FCP. But I don't have any machines which connect to monitors via HDMI.

I think there are some limitations on HDMI cable and endpoint versions for full support of 4k/59.94 Rec.2020 HLG with Dolby Vision 8.4 (what FCP exports). I don't recall any of the above posts stating what resolution and frame rate were being used.

It would be a good test to try 1080p at 23.98, 25.0 or 29.97 and see if that works using Rec.2020 HLG with Dolby Vision 8.4. That lowers the bandwidth a lot, which brings the scenario inside more specs for cables and endpoints. If making that change works better, that tends to imply it's a cable or endpoint issue.

When using HDR output from an Apple computer to an external monitor, a key issue is what display profile is used. If the display profile is not configured for HDR or one of the new presets like XDR P3-1600 nits, it won't look right. The newer Apple monitors have presets and the older ones and non-Apple monitors normally use ICC profiles. Which one is in use is shown in System Settings>Displays.

On any Mac with either built-in monitors like XDR MacBook Pros or with external monitors, you can test HDR by going to Youtube and searching for "HDR channel" and trying to stream those with Safari and Firefox. If you right-click and select "Stats for Nerds" that should indicate 'Color HLG / bt2020.' If it does not, there is a problem independent of FCP.

iPhones 12 and later can record HDR using 10-bit Rec.2020 HLG Dolby Vision. That does not have to be ProRes. If you enable HDR recording on the iPhone, you can upload that directly to Youtube or play the local file on an HDR-capable Mac -- without editing. That is another way to test whether your computer playback system can handle local or streaming HDR playback. Only if that works on the given computer and monitor is there any need to pursue whether you can edit and grade that using FCP: Adjust HDR camera settings on iPhone - Apple Support

If you copy the Rec.2020 HLG video from the iPhone to your Mac, does it have tags 9-18-9 as shown by doing CMD+I in Quicktime Player and examining Video Details?

If it has those tags, does it play as expected in Quicktime Player? If not, this problem has nothing to do with FCP.

In MacOS System Settings>Displays, what color profile is selected for the HDR monitor?

OK so I installed Sequoia on an external drive connected to my M1 MacPro with XDR screen, set to HDR P3-ST2084 display preset (the correct one as recommended by Apple and the one I always use), and I installed the latest version of FCP. I am not having any issues seeing HDR video (PQ or HLG) properly - not washed out, not interpreted as SDR in either the Final CUt viewer or rendered in Quicktime and they look identical as usual.

I suggest you check the color conform settings for your footage to see that it is not being interpreted as SDR. If so then change it manually to HLG. Otherwise it might be something to do with your monitor not getting the correct HDR signal from your Mac? In any case, it doesn't appear to me to be a general problem with Sequoia.

I encountered this problem on the first day of the public (not beta) release of Sequoia 15.0. Immediately contacted support and have talked to several advisors since with no resolution in site. Editing to add that the 4th person I spoke to elevated the issue to an engineer about a week ago, but the engineer hasn't gotten back to the advisor yet. This happens on my M1 desktop all the time and my Mac Laptop when it's hooked up to an external monitor. It doesn't happen on the laptop's internal screen.

I'm working with an LG C3 color calibrated monitor that's hooked up directly to the HDMI port (not going through an UltraStudio type device), but I tested it with 3 consumer-grade HDR monitors ranging in price from $300 to $1500 on both machines.

When working with an HLG project, all HDR clips appear dark in the browser and the viewer when I hover over them in the browser and the timeline. When I switch the project to PQ (including setting the proper monitor's metadata in the project settings), the clips display fine in the viewer if I hover over them in the timeline, but they display dark in the viewer and the browser when I hover over them in the browser.

I tested several different projects using footage from several different cameras, and they all have issues. If I open those same projects on a Mac with Sonoma, they work correctly.

I have been working with HDR timelines for over 5 years and know how to probably set up the project types and edit/conform footage between color spaces.

To test more, I went to an Apple Store and tried to duplicate the issue on a Mac mini and a Mac Studio that were hooked up to the $1599 Mac Studio monitor via USB-C, and I couldn't duplicate it. So, it either seems to be an issue with the computers talking to the monitor.

I typically have edited and exported my HDR projects in HLG, but I have since switched to editing in PQ. The clips are still dark when I hover over them in the browser, so it's difficult to mark in/out points, but they look fine once added to the timeline, so I can work with it.

This issue does not occur with DaVinci Resolve Studio 19.0.1 or 19.0.2, which was released yesterday.

Hey Clint, I'm having this same issue on my LG C3 and 3 other monitors and not going through a that I tested. They were all hooked up directly to the HDMI port and not going through an UltraStudio type device. I went to an Apple Store and did some testing using a Mac mini and a Mac Studio, which were both hooked up to a Mac Studio monitor via USB-C, and I couldn't duplicate the problem. It seems it may be an issue with MacOS talking to external monitors or possibly when they are connected through HDMI. My monitors don't support USB-C, so I can't hook them up that way to verify.

Hi AlainBE, I must have missed or misread your comment where you said you're connected to an LG monitor via Thunderbolt. The sorting of messages in these discussions is sometimes hard to follow, and I probably missed it.

Like you, my issue started when I updated to Sequoia. I worked on a project in the morning with Sonoma, and it worked great. Updated to Sequoia in the afternoon, and the issue immediately appeared.

I edit on a desktop, but I have a MacBook that still had Sonoma on it, so I installed FCP, and it worked great hooked up to the external monitor that wasn't working with the desktop. I then installed Sequoia on the MacBook, and the dark issue immediately appeared.

With you connecting to Thunderbolt and not HDMI confirms it's not an HDMI issue and possibly a "Third party monitor" issue as Apple support stated. If so, that's disheartening.

My workaround was switching to PQ projects instead of HLG because the clips in the timeline show correctly in the viewer window in this mode. They still show dark when I hover over them in the browser, but I can work around that.

Good point, Clint. All content shot in 10-bit 4:2:2 (or above): C-Log3, S-Log3, V-Log, D-Log, etc is inherently HDR from a dynamic range and color gamut standpoint. If edited in an SDR library using an SDR project, the material's latent HDR capability is unused. But it is always present.

E.g, I usually grade my FX6's 10-bit 4:2:2 XAVC-I S-Log3/S-Gamut3.cine material as SDR, but it contains 12.8 stops dynamic range and the S-Gamut3.cine color space is roughly similar to Rec.2020. I could take any of that material shot over the past several years and regrade that in an HDR library and Rec.2020 HLG project as true HDR.

When importing a ProRes RAW clip, FCP notifies you that it's HDR and asks what library type you want. But that's just a convention. In reality, it's no more HDR than S-Log3 material from the same camera. They both have HDR dynamic range and color gamuts.

In fact it's often better to *not* shoot in a specific in-camera HDR format such as HLG. That was not originally designed as a recording format to be later edited. That said, an iPhone does a pretty good job of recording Rec.2020 HLG internally, but my iPhone preference would be ProRes Log, then editing that in an HDR library/project and exporting as Rec.2020 10-bit HLG with Dolby Vision 8.4. FCP has a preset for that.

But none of that matters if you can't *see* the HDR on an HDR monitor to grade it. That is what this bug affects. Whether the camera material is S-Log3 or ProRes RAW, as of Sequoia, that content cannot be viewed properly in FCP if connected to a non-Apple HDR monitor. Even professional monitors like the $11,000 Flanders Scientific XMP310 are affected. It's hard to believe this was missed in testing.

As you said, it shouldn't be necessary to shoot in an SDR format such as Rec.709 while this problem is being fixed, but grading in SDR might be needed temporarily.

For everyone following this thread, I've been talking with Apple support since this issue first appeared. The case was escalated to engineering, who has requested many application and system logs, copies of the footage (videos) that aren't working and more.

Today I received an email from support, and it said "Engineering states that the issue seems to be isolated to the 3rd party displays."

That didn't really tell me anything because that's what I've told them all along. The issue happens on 3rd party displays connected via HDMI. It doesn't happen with the Apple Studio Display or the Apple Pro Display XDR connected via Thunderbolt. I can't confirm if it happens with non-Apple monitors connected via Thunderbolt because I don't have access to one.

I replied to the email and asked, "So does that mean that Final Cut Pro cannot be used with a third-party monitor?"

Hopefully, they'll get back to me in the next couple days with a response. When they do, I'll be sure to update everyone.

PF_Productions wrote:

Thanks Luis. Yes, I should've clarified that. In FCPX it's AV Output. But in System Settings I have to put that 3rd monitor as "Extended Desktop" and I have to enable "HDR output". Two different locations.

I think this is relevant, and it is also relevant that taking a screenshot apparently shows things correctly, whereas a photo of the screen exhibits the problem.

So, two observations:

1) The file appears to correctly encoded, and the problem lies in how it is sent to the external display.

2) It would be interesting to know what happens if you set the Viewer to that display, instead of AV monitor.

Would the media played back on the viewer, on the external display, show as it does in the internal, or as it does in AV monitor?

And - sorry if this has been asked and answered before - what is the Color Profile selected for the external display? Could that be the problem?

I spoke with Apple today, and they reaffirmed that the issue seems to be related to 3rd party monitors since it doesn't happen with Apple monitors.

They suggested reaching out to the manufacturers for additional support and to see if the monitors in question support Sequoia since the issue appeared after upgrading.

What happens if you change your project settings to Wide Gamut HDR Rec2020 PQ? Rather than change the existing project, you can do this by Duplicating Project As....

@IAmSkippermark: I can now see the problem. I connected my M1 Max MacBook Pro to my HDR/HLG/Dolby-capable LG C8 TV, and it behaves as you described. Quicktime playback shows as HDR, but within the FCP viewer (if connected to the TV), it does not. That is using Sequoia 15.1 and FCP 10.8.1 or FCP 11.0. Unfortunately, I don't have any machines still running Sonoma to test.

MacOS Settings>Display shows "LG.TV" as the color profile, and the HDR option is enabled in the UI.

If I disconnect the HDMI cable from the TV, the FCP viewer displays HDR. That is using an iPhone Rec.2020 HLG Dolby Vision clip in a Wide Gamut library and a Rec.2020 HLG project, with auto color conform on. I tried all combinations of color conform in FCP settings and the Inspector and none of those worked.

So when the MacBook Pro detects the TV is connected via HDMI, it handshakes and this somehow restricts the FCP viewer from displaying HDR in the MacBook Pro XDR screen or the HDMI-connected TV. But it does not affect Quicktime Player display of HDR/HLG content on either MacBook display or the HDMI-connected TV. This implies it is not an HDMI cable issue (although I'm using 8k-rated HDMI cables).

My TV by itself can clearly decode and show HDR HLG content if my TV streams it via ethernet using the WebOS Youtube app from a Youtube HDR channel.

This is a complex issue because several things are happening "under the covers." The playback app (Quicktime or FCP) reads the NCLC tags (aka code points) in the file metadata, the app decides how to handle that, then MacOS ColorSync does a match based on the display device color profile.

Simultaneously there is MacOS EDR (Extended Dynamic Range) technology which modifies the video output IF the internal or external monitor is an Apple device capable of HDR. The purpose of EDR is (1) To squeeze out the best image on an Apple display and (2) To differentially control luminance of the viewer window vs the UI elements. This avoids excessively bright UI elements during HDR playback. There are some WWDC talks on this.

I will have to do further testing and possibly run FCP under XCode to see what is happening. This could take several days.

Other apps have no probleM so it has to be a compound bug in the way FCP outputs to the TV but down to some difference between Sequioa and Sonoma. You obviously know what you’re doing with HDR and it worked in Sonoma. I think you should file a bug report with Apple.