User profile for user: original_jeff
original_jeff Author
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Photos App Import Previews Photos Upside Down

My environment is Apple Photos 8.0 (560.0.110) on a 2019 27-inch iMac running 13.6.6 "Ventura". My Photos library is stored on an external USB SSD formatted as Mac OS Extended (Journaled), with the Ignore ownership on this volume flag set. The problem I'm experiencing also happens under my wife's account on her 2023 Mac Mini (same OS, same version of Photos). We are not using iCloud in any way, not for anything: it is not enabled on our Macs, nor on our iPhones. There have been no changes or updates to either of our Macs at least in the past 12 months. However, we have both recently upgraded our iPhones from iPhone 13 running iOS 17.x, to iPhone 16 running iOS 18.0.


Since upgrading, whenever we attempt to import photos from our iPhones to Photos on our Macs using a USB cable, all of the photos in the preview are upside down; videos appear right-side up. Here is a screen shot from my Mac showing the issue. As you can see, the videos (circled in green) all appear right-side up, while photos (circled in red) all appear upside down.



The photos and videos in the screenshot above were all taken on my iPhone 13/iOS 17, and were transferred to my iPhone 16/iOS 18. I am now attempting to import them. They appear correctly in the Photos app on my phone. This problem started after we upgraded our iPhones/iOS, but I'm posting here since the problem manifests in the desktop version of Photos. I'm assuming this is some kind of bug in either Photos or iOS, but there doesn't seem to be any updates or fixes to iOS or to Photos on my macOS. Is there any way at all I can correct for this? It very annoying trying to select individual photos to import when they're all upside down! I should also mention that this problem occurs with new photos I have taken on my iPhone 16/iOS 18.

iMac (2017 – 2020)

Posted on Oct 4, 2024 09:08 AM

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User profile for user: original_jeff
original_jeff Author
User level: Level 1
39 points

Posted on Oct 4, 2024 11:37 AM

Great troubleshooting suggestions, Richard! Thank you.


For anyone else that finds this post, here is what I found from following Richard's suggestions--and a new development.


  • Use the "Image Capture" app -- Same behavior: photos upside down, videos rightside up
  • Restart the computer -- Same behavior
  • Restart in Safe Mode -- Same behavior
  • Try an empty test library on internal drive -- Same behavior
  • Make a new user -- Same behavior


My understanding is that the iPhone uses its internal accelerometer(s) to determine the phone's orientation, and then embeds that orientation data in the photo file metadata. It is then up to the client application to render the image correctly using the orientation data from the metadata. So, I tried one further test: I took four photos, one in each of all four orientations. Check out this screen shot of the Photos import preview screen (and yes, I see the same in Image Capture):



That may be a little hard to read, but the only orientation with a problem is first one, where the phone is in landscape mode with the volume buttons up. I always take landscape photos with the volume buttons up because (1) I find it easier to grip the phone with both hands and trigger the shutter release (or "image capture," if you prefer) with the volume button, and (2) If I'm shooting my son's tennis match, I enable burst mode, which requires the volume button. Reviewing all of my unimported photos in preview, it appears that portrait-oriented photos, panoramas, videos, and landscape-oriented photos sent to me by other people via iMessage and saved to Photos on my phone, are all showing in preview with correct orientation. It is only landscape photos taken with the volume buttons up that have the problem (i.e., 98% of my photos).


I would be very curious to know the following:


  1. Does anyone else see this behavior with Photos 8.0 (560.0.110) on a Mac with 13.6.6 "Ventura" when previewing an import via USB cable?
  2. Can anyone confirm that his behavior works correctly on 14.7.0 Sonoma (i.e, all four orientations preview correctly)?


Major upgrades are hugely disruptive and break so many things that I'm always reluctant to update, especially since Apple's architectural changes destroyed Carbon Copy Cloner's ability to do one-click backups and restores of bootable volumes. Upgrading a Mac to test-drive a new release, and then easily downgrading if necessary doesn't seem to be an option any longer. :-(

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User profile for user: original_jeff
original_jeff Author
User level: Level 1
39 points

Oct 4, 2024 11:37 AM in response to Richard.Taylor

Great troubleshooting suggestions, Richard! Thank you.


For anyone else that finds this post, here is what I found from following Richard's suggestions--and a new development.


  • Use the "Image Capture" app -- Same behavior: photos upside down, videos rightside up
  • Restart the computer -- Same behavior
  • Restart in Safe Mode -- Same behavior
  • Try an empty test library on internal drive -- Same behavior
  • Make a new user -- Same behavior


My understanding is that the iPhone uses its internal accelerometer(s) to determine the phone's orientation, and then embeds that orientation data in the photo file metadata. It is then up to the client application to render the image correctly using the orientation data from the metadata. So, I tried one further test: I took four photos, one in each of all four orientations. Check out this screen shot of the Photos import preview screen (and yes, I see the same in Image Capture):



That may be a little hard to read, but the only orientation with a problem is first one, where the phone is in landscape mode with the volume buttons up. I always take landscape photos with the volume buttons up because (1) I find it easier to grip the phone with both hands and trigger the shutter release (or "image capture," if you prefer) with the volume button, and (2) If I'm shooting my son's tennis match, I enable burst mode, which requires the volume button. Reviewing all of my unimported photos in preview, it appears that portrait-oriented photos, panoramas, videos, and landscape-oriented photos sent to me by other people via iMessage and saved to Photos on my phone, are all showing in preview with correct orientation. It is only landscape photos taken with the volume buttons up that have the problem (i.e., 98% of my photos).


I would be very curious to know the following:


  1. Does anyone else see this behavior with Photos 8.0 (560.0.110) on a Mac with 13.6.6 "Ventura" when previewing an import via USB cable?
  2. Can anyone confirm that his behavior works correctly on 14.7.0 Sonoma (i.e, all four orientations preview correctly)?


Major upgrades are hugely disruptive and break so many things that I'm always reluctant to update, especially since Apple's architectural changes destroyed Carbon Copy Cloner's ability to do one-click backups and restores of bootable volumes. Upgrading a Mac to test-drive a new release, and then easily downgrading if necessary doesn't seem to be an option any longer. :-(

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User profile for user: Richard.Taylor
Richard.Taylor
User level: Level 6
15,739 points

Oct 4, 2024 09:29 AM in response to original_jeff

Far out! Some things to try, just to maybe localize the problem:


  • Use the app "Image Capture" in your Applications folder, and see if it does the same thing.
  • Restart the computer (of course)
  • Re-start in Safe Mode. This bypasses certain potentially disruptive processes. Safe Mode is different for different computers, so see this: 

           Start up your Mac in safe mode - Apple Support 

  • Make a small test Library on your internal drive with a few pictures in it, and see if the same thing happens. You can create a new Library by closing Photos and then option-clicking on the Photos icon.
  • Make a new user and see if the same problem recurs with it


The idea is to find out if the problem is with the Library, with your account, or with caches and login items, and stuff like that. One of these steps could even fix the problem, but their failure to work also helps figure out what's happening.

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User profile for user: original_jeff
original_jeff Author
User level: Level 1
39 points

Oct 12, 2024 02:30 PM in response to original_jeff

Just in case somebody else stumbles across this thread, I though I'd make one more post.


I finally got around to breaking out my old iPhone 5 running iOS 10.3.4. I did an import preview in Photos 4 on macOS 10.14.6 "Mojave", as well in Photos 8 on macOS 13.6.6 "Ventura". In both cases, photos taken in all four orientations rendered correctly in the preview. Here's a screen shot.



I think this pretty much proves the issue in my original post is a bug in iOS 18, and nothing to do with Photos. Or maybe it's a bug in something to do with the interaction between iOS 18 and Photos, but I'm pretty certain this behavior didn't manifest in versions of iOS prior to 18, because as I stated previously, I have always taken all of my landscape photos with the volume buttons oriented up, and they have never been rendered upside-down in the Photos import preview--I would have noticed.


Well, I guess this thread now technically belongs wherever iOS 18 posts belong. Anybody know how to file an iOS bug report with Apple? :-)

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User profile for user: Richard.Taylor
Richard.Taylor
User level: Level 6
15,739 points

Oct 4, 2024 12:12 PM in response to Richard.Taylor

I just switched to my "Guest User" account which is not connected to iCloud. So I could use a USB cable to transfer pictures to that user's Photos. I took a pictures with volume buttons down and one with volume buttons up, and I got exactly your results-- in Sonoma. The camera has an upside down position. But, when I imported them to Photos, they were both right-side up. Photos fixes it. I don't think you mentioned it, but I am guessing it works that way I'm Ventura, as well.


I don't think that Apple thinks of this as a bug, but as a feature. You just have to shoot buttons down.



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User profile for user: original_jeff
original_jeff Author
User level: Level 1
39 points

Oct 7, 2024 07:35 AM in response to Richard.Taylor

Thank you for taking the time to confirm the behavior on your instances of 13.x "Ventura" and 14.x "Sonoma".


I've kept an old 27-inch late 2012 iMac running 10.14.6 "Mojave". I tried my iPhone 16/iOS 18 with Photos 4.0 (and Preview and Image Capture) on 10.14 and the behavior is happening there as well. I'm pretty confident this behavior didn't used to happen prior to my upgrade to the iPhone 16 and iOS 18, but since I traded in my iPhone 13 with iOS 17.x, I no longer have an older phone to test with. I do have a really old iPhone 6 around here I might dig out and try.


You asked about Preview and GraphicConverter; I don't have the latter, but the behavior is the same in Preview as it is in Image Capture and Photos. I suspect (although admittedly this is just a guess) that all of those apps use the same API calls to preview photos on the iPhone, so it makes sense to me that their behavior is consistent.


When I take a picture downward, as when copying a document, the orientation of the GUI on the phone will shift based on how the accelerometer(s) determine I am holding the phone. If I hold the phone parallel to a flat surface but tipped only slightly (say, just a few degrees) away from myself, the GUI (and corresponding image) will be an "upside down portrait". If I tip it slightly toward myself, it will be a "rightside up portrait". Similarly, if I tip the phone slightly left or right, the GUI and image will render as a "buttons down landscape" or "buttons up landscape" accordingly.


At this point, the behavior is looking like it has less to do with macOS or Photos, and maybe more to do with a change in iOS. I agree with your comment that Apple may very well consider this a feature, although IMHO I would argue that if Apple considers a "buttons-up landscape" photo as upside down and show it that way in preview, then for consistency they should also consider a "USB port-up portrait" photo as upside down and show it that way in preview as well.


Thanks again for your help.

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Photos App Import Previews Photos Upside Down

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