iCloud sync preventing Time Machine backup, but Optimize Storage is Off

It's good that Optimize is turned off, because Time Machine can't back up files that aren't there. My Time Machine is doing fine with iCloud Drive and iCloud Photos.

How is the storage on our Mac and at your iCloud--how much free space do you have? I'm not sure the "amount of storage" updates often enough for that to be a useful measure when things are changing. You need to have plenty of room, more than 10% free, in both places for this to run smoothly. iCloud should have little filing circles as it uploads-- what do you see with those? The meaning of the iCloud icons is near the bottom in this:

Understanding iCloud Drive - Apple Community

You can try turning iCloud syncing on and off to see if that jogs the system. Keep in mind that syncing is slow when the Mac is being used-- it's best to leave it on overnight.

Let us know what happens…

I had misunderstood you. I thought that "perpetually in sync mode" meant synchronizing with iCloud, but you didn't intend for that to be happening.

iCloud Drive is a folder on your Mac that is copied to the iCloud Drive folder at iCloud.com, and then it's copied to the iCloud Drive folder on other devices, like maybe your iPad, that also have iCloud Drive turned on. The whole purpose of iCloud is to synchronize files and pictures among several devices. Your Desktop and Documents folders can be kept inside the iCloud folder so those would be synchronized, as well. If you don't want the syncing to happen, just turn all the iCloud things off.

Optimize Storage automatically swaps files in and out from iCloud so you don't use so much space on your internal drive. I don't use Optimize on my Mac, because I want the stuff to be there to get backed up, but I do use Optimize on my phone since it has way less space.

As with the threat of AI, when you see it taking over, just switch if off!

I'm having a different but related problem - maybe you can help. Twice now I've suddenly seen an iCloud error message that says: "If you continue items will be removed from the Desktop and the Documents folder on this Mac and will remain available in iCloud Drive." Then I have an option to Cancel or Turn Off. (Note: I changed nothing in my iCloud settings before this showed up.)

Both times this happened while Time Machine was backing up but the second time my screen went gray and my whole computer froze until I ran Disk Utility from Recovery Mode. It found a whole long string of errors with Time Machine in the code and seemed to fix them. But I'm afraid it will happen again and would like to avoid that.

I have now gone into System Settings and turned off Optimize Storage, but I want my Desktop/Documents in iCloud, on Time Machine and on my hard drive.

What to do? And if I get that message again, should I select Cancel or Turn Off? Do I need to reinstall Sequoia? Get a new Time Machine disk?

Thanks for any help!

Jazzo49 wrote: …I have now gone into System Settings and turned off Optimize Storage, but I want my Desktop/Documents in iCloud, on Time Machine and on my hard drive.

What to do? And if I get that message again, should I select Cancel or Turn Off? Do I need to reinstall Sequoia? Get a new Time Machine disk?

You sent your message to Howard Fried, but I'm guessing you meant it for me?

The big disadvantage to "Optimize Storage" is that you can't back up files that aren't there. This applies to both iCloud Drive and iCloud Photos, as it says in the earlier link, Understanding iCloud Drive - Apple Community So I don't use Optimize with my Mac for this reason. I do have files in iCloud Drive that I have removed from my Mac (mostly to see what happens,) and I haven't had problems with Time Machine.

The message you received is prompted when you try to switch off iCloud storage. Your Mac would be left with aliases referring to the actual files at iCloud.com that it could no longer access. So turning off iCloud leaves the files at iCloud.com, but it erases the reference stubs on the Mac.

Just because you've turned off Optimize doesn't mean that all your files have been downloaded from iCloud. Some files may not be returned to the Mac until they are requested. You can look at the iCloud icons (as shown in that link) to see the status of your iCloud Drive files, and you can download the ones that haven't arrived, yet.

Thank you, both! Yes Richard, I did mean to reply to you. You say the message was prompted when I tried to switch off iCloud storage - but that's the thing, I didn't try to do that. I didn't change or do anything, this just started happening. But the first time it happened, I think I did click turn off, because I didn't like the idea of it continuing and erasing files from my Mac.

The idea of it erasing the reference stubs on my Mac is scary to me. I don't actually use iCloud actively - I had a computer crash before this and pulled Documents/Desktop into iCloud out of fear LOL. I basically live on my Mac.

What do you recommend if I get that message again?

Jazzo49 wrote: …What do you recommend if I get that message again?

Are all your files local now? If so, you shouldn't get the that message. If not, then choose not to go ahead with turning off iCloud Drive, if that's what you want. The files remain at iCloud.com in any case, so if the alias disappears you can download from there.

I don't really want to turn iCloud off. Ideally I'd continue with what I thought I had: Desktop/Docs on iCloud, everything backing up to Time Machine. Sorry - I just find their wording so confusing. What would I select to keep that protocol?

Ugh - now I'm getting an error message saying "Your system has run out of application memory" when I only have four things open - Outlook, Chrome, Word and Messages. I usually have even more than that open and it's fine. This happened yesterday too. Should I try reinstalling Sequoia? I"m not sure what's going on, but my computer is suddenly becoming problematic.

Okay, so this link was super helpful, thank you. The key piece of it for me is that iCloud is for syncing not backup. I don't really need to sync documents with my phone or laptop (which has very little space on the hard drive). I guess what confuses me is that I think of Dropbox as being for both syncing AND backup, but I guess they're not really the same?

Anyway, I'm thinking I might stop using iCloud for Desktop and Docs. Thanks for your help again!

Syncing is for sharing, so you can work from different devices. Backup is in case you accidentally erase your entire Doctoral thesis and you have to spend another three years taking data. Syncing would immediately erase the thesis everywhere.. But backup doesn't let you access your most current version on another computer.

iCloud provides a limited backup, like if your phone gets run over by a truck, then you can access your stuff from a computer. But if you make a mistake in your work, that mistake is propagated instantly to all of your devices.

Syncing is a luxury. Backup is essential.

Well put. Is Dropbox the same as iCloud? Doesn't it also provide a backup function?

I will be unsync-ing my Desktop/Docs from iCloud! I only put them there after my computer did crash, but I reinstalled on my new one via my backup drive, not iCloud - to your point!

Try restarting your Mac and iPhone, then toggle iCloud sync on and off again. If that doesn't work, reach out to Apple support for a more in-depth troubleshooting guide specific to Sequoia.