Level 1

16 points

Update on Apple Pay / bank - Fraud (UK)

Ok so just thought I would bring everyone up to speed on what’s happened with my fight with Monzo bank for unauthorised transactions from our joint account without us knowing and paid to 5 separate Revolut payment cards ..

we have been fighting this since March 24 when the alarm was raised when the transactions started leaving our account showing on our Apple Watches while we sat and watched TV .. we immediately emptied the account of all remaining funds and contacted MONZO , who froze all cards associated immediately and then started to look into it .. we contact Revolut who told us to go away as we are not customers , we contacted Apple support who said that the payments had not shown up on our account history .. however have now said they should have not said that ? … that same day Monzo fraud specialist team …LOL we have authorised it and they will not pay the money back (£650)

The whole case eventually after arguing with Monzo was sent across to the financial ombudsman who have looked into it and said that they will rule in favour of the bank saying that the payment token was set up in September 2024 on my wife’s iPhone and approved via the Monzo app !!!!!!! So in nut shell we have done it which is total nonsense!

we have no dealings with revolut , the money was leaving our account one after the other £100 then £150 the £100 etc while my wife was screaming at me someone is taken money out of our account ! and no one can explain how !! All we can assume we have been subject to a very clever set of fraudsters who have accessed our account wither Apple Pay , iPhone or bank without us knowing set up a payment token and used it 6 months later ..

we have checked our payment history back in September and everything looks in order , no dodgy payments , in fact my wife never really uses Apple Pay online , last used was July 2024 , and always uses her phone as tap and pay .

some have said that her card has been skimmed yet this does not explain how they have been able to access Apple Pay to set up this so called payment token

in a nutshell we have lost £650 ($893) in 13 min’s and can’t prove this is fraud !

we are about to close our Monzo bank accounts and stop using Apple Pay as somewhere down the line one of these is to blame for all this ! So please please be very careful what you do only have minimal funds in your debit account and have the rest in a savings account that can be used to move money around as and when needed

we shouted out to Apple support again for help and as expected we got passed from one advisor to another , one said one thing and the other said another , it was basically go away we don’t want to know … thanks allot ! Small fish in big ocean springs to mind !!

So don’t use Apple Pay and don’t bank with Monzo

one last evidence I’ve supplied yesterday , I put my wife’s email account which is her Apple account in NORD VPN and this has come back with a dark web breach back in September 2024 ? Possible details been leaked from a website that sells left over tickets for shows in London , I’ve send this to the ombudsman so hopefully this will help our case , yet it still does not explain how they have been able to set up the payments , my wife never used this company and never paid for anything just simple registered with NO payment . Who knows !

thanks for your time if you have read this right to the bottom

take care and be careful we are always under attack ! and the so called financial institutions won’t help us , yet want our money !

Andy

iPhone 13 Pro Max, iOS 18

Posted on Jun 27, 2025 1:18 AM

Top-ranking reply

Jeff Donald

Level 8

44,598 points

Posted on Jun 29, 2025 6:57 AM

There is nothing suspicious in the approvals for each transaction. A unique approval for each transaction is standard as is the ARD/ARN (Acquirer Reference Number).

There really is only one way you’re going to prove your case. Each Apple iPhone that works with Apple Pay has a unique SEID (Secure Element ID). Apple has encrypted data on their servers that know the SEID of the device used to approve the transactions in question. The issuing bank can confirm the SEID of the device that was used.

Apple will generally cooperate with investigations, but it takes a court order. Have you filed a police report?

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35 replies

Smigglechops Author

Level 1

16 points

Jun 29, 2025 8:22 AM in response to Jeff Donald

Well I’m hoping that the ombudsman who has this now will look into this and agree that we have been subject to fraud on our joint account it all depends on them , if they rule with the bank it’s over for us and the fraudster / fraudsters have got away with it . We have already accepted we will not get the money back .

yes I rang the police to report it , but unfortunately over here the local police force don’t deal with direct cases and this is transferred to Action fraud with is national across the uk , however they don’t actually investigate it , it’s basically a reporting service ….

I've taken all the advise and information you have gave me , ready for the final decision to come through once that happens and if this is ruled against us I will use your knowledge and respond accordingly.

we still don’t know how the **** this happened , out of the blue the money left our account that morning , luckily I was in and not at work or nightshift or I believe we would have lost everything out of the account .

thanks again for your time you have been very helpful to help me understand how all this works .

Andy

Jeff Donald

Level 8

44,598 points

Jun 29, 2025 8:55 AM in response to Chattanoogan

“It might seem that this capability would allow individuals to improperly “bail out” of their merchant agreements re: future recurring payments.”

That’s why I think the merchant will have to opt in. I’ve seen no evidence of this ability yet and I have several subscriptions through Apple Pay. It could be because the subscriptions were started before activation date of the service through Apple Wallet/Pay.

Smigglechops Author

Level 1

16 points

Jul 1, 2025 12:17 AM in response to Jeff Donald

Hi Jeff

sorry to bother you again , I was just wondering if you could answer this final question with you opinion … this is part of the response the ombudsman have replied with

“” For clarity the payment token that was set up in September 2024 does not mean that the payment for Revolut was set up then. The payment token was set up which ultimately created a wallet pay token, that token was then never used until the payments occurred with Revolut “”

this is what I don’t understand , if my wife entered her details on a fraudulent website around that time or that day ? Which was not possible as we were out all that day , or paid for some items on a market store as I’ve discussed earlier via mobile payment tap and pay how has this token been set up and not used ??? As they keep

saying via her device

if this, we suspect is a merchant token would the information on this token be revolut ? Because they have said this would not be the case ? What they are basically saying a payment token was set up to be used to pay whoever ! Is this even possible ? As my understanding every token is unique ?

they keep going back to … “ As you have confirmed your wife’s device was not accessed by anyone else so that would indicate that she has set it up “

im in the process of setting up my final response regarding the information you have supplied with all the token info to ask questions on what information is present regarding the token and device codes which I believe is the key to our case !

yet it’s my belief that they don’t understand the security behind Apple Pay and just keep referring back to its your fault and your device payed it so your to blame !

thanks again for your time , I do really appreciate it , and it’s good to talk to someone separate who understands Apple Pay set up , I do hope that this feed will also help other users, I don’t think we are alone

Andy

Jeff Donald

Level 8

44,598 points

Jun 27, 2025 5:07 AM in response to Smigglechops

Apple Pay can’t transfer to a card, end of story. There is no sophisticated fraud method.

What was the source of your funds, a bank account?

Smigglechops Author

Level 1

16 points

Jun 27, 2025 6:16 AM in response to Jeff Donald

Yes

Apple Pay was used to make these 5 transactions from our joint Monzo bank account using my wives debit card which is on Apple Pay

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Update on Apple Pay / bank - Fraud (UK)