FireWire support on MacBook Pro M1 with OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock

ProfessorVideo wrote:

I am using an OWC Thunderbolt 3 Dock to successfully connect a RAID array box to my M1 MBP via FireWire. I read that the new MacOS has dropped FireWire support, but does my Dock need it?

Your Dock already has it. FW800 support is built into the Dock.

I think you are asking if Tahoe doesn't support FW but your Dock does, will FW drives still work with the Dock. The answer is probably yes. The Firewire PHY is in the Dock. The Dock is connected to your Mac via Thunderbolt 3, so your Mac only "sees" the Thunderbolt connection to the Dock. All the outbound connections from the Dock (USB 3.1, FW, S/PDIF, MDP) are handled by the Dock.

That said, only time will tell ...

HWTech wrote:

I seriously doubt you will be able to access the Firewire drive unless your dock is more than just a simple dock and is translating the Firewire data stream to something else (what would that be though? Very doubtful ... wishing/hoping for it won't make it so).

The OP's Dock (OWC Thunderbolt 3 dock) has an upstream Thunderbolt 3 port and a downstream FW800 port. That means the dock itself has an integrated Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter (called the PHY) .. much like the Apple Thunderbolt 2 to Firewire adapter ... except in this case Thunderbolt 3 to Firewire.

Short of actual connection & trial I see no reason the Dock shouldn't continue to provide access to FW800 drives when the Dock is connected to a Mac running Tahoe.

But if the OP's RAID Enclosure supports USB 3.0 or later I would strongly advocate using USB 3.x instead of Firewire.

ProfessorVideo wrote:

As I said - I am connecting a RAID array box to the Dock via FireWire (800). I have a horrible suspicion that only I will know if it works with Tahoe! There cannot be many others trying to do the same thing.

If I try it - how easy is it to reverse back to Sequoia?

I seriously doubt you will be able to access the Firewire drive unless your dock is more than just a simple dock and is translating the Firewire data stream to something else (what would that be though? Very doubtful ... wishing/hoping for it won't make it so).

As others have mentioned, many Firewire drives tended to have a USB port along with a Firewire port to make it more versatile. Maybe you will be lucky and it is a USB3 port instead of a USB2 port. Either way, most Firewire drives will most likely be very slow, so why not just purchase a new USB3 drive & transfer the files on the Firewire drive to the new drive? It will be faster and you will be getting rid of a drive that is most likely wearing out anyway.

Trying to downgrade the OS will be a major pain if you install Tahoe over top of Sequoia. Focus on the correct problem......getting rid of the Firewire drive if it does not have a USB3 interface.

https://xyproblem.info/

However, if you insist on doing things the hard way....here is a slightly easier method of testing....

If you have at least 90GB+ of Free storage space on your boot drive (you may need even a bit more since the Tahoe installer is almost 17GB in size), then you can create a new APFS volume & install Tahoe into it to see what happens. It is just as easy to delete that new APFS volume once testing is complete. Just make sure you have at least 20GB or better yet 20%+ of Free storage space at all times (even that amount can disappear quickly even under simple basic workloads).

Unfortunately the only places within macOS where you can actually see the Free storage space value is in Disk Utility or the Apple System Profiler. Unfortunately the "Available" storage value shown everywhere within macOS is very misleading and in macOS "Available" is not synonymous with Free.

Or you can install Tahoe to an external USB3 SSD, but keep in mind the hidden early boot files on the internal SSD will be updated to Tahoe versions regardless of where you install Tahoe (part of how an M-series Mac works). Keep in mind there are numerous reports of people having issues installing Tahoe (mostly on M3 Macs, but not always)....some of the solutions involve completely wiping the internal SSD with a DFU Firmware Restore which requires access to another Mac running macOS Tahoe (or possibly Sequoia).

Install Tahoe on an external drive, and test. Do not upgrade the OS in your internal until you determine whether or not it will work.

What is the make/model of your RAID Array enclosure, and does it have any connections other than FW800?

I have an OWC Mercury Rack Pro with FW800 that I used that way for many years, but it also has a USB 3.0 connection (5Gbps) and it's actually faster than FW800. I have switched to using the USB connection.

ProfessorVideo wrote:

I thought the OWC Thunderbolt Dock would sort it for me for the immediate future, but this dropping of FireWire support is a blow

I hear you. Like you, I had a significant investment in FW drives which I hung onto way past the point where it became obvious that even USB 3.0 @ 5Gbps was significantly faster and the drives & enclosures cheaper than FW.

Apple started dropping support for Firewire over 10 years ago. The last Macs that came with FW ports were the 2012's. Ventura removed Firewire support in Core Audio. The Apple Thunderbolt-to-FW adapter was discontinued 2 years ago. And over that same period FW drives and other FW devices effectively disappeared from the market. So, we have had a very long time to adjust to the reality that FW was going away.

Over the same time period USB 3, 4 & 5 came along as did Thunderbolt 2, 3, 4 & 5. All are *way faster* than even FW800 and they are the technologies of choice in the market today.

The point being, it's time to let FW go and move on to modern drive technologies ... USB, Thunderbolt, NVME. I finally made the move from FW to USB and from HDDs to SSDs over the past 2 years and I'm really glad I did.

What brand and model is your RAID array box..?

Many of those RAID boxes have both FireWire 800 and a USB 3.0 connection.

If it has a USB 3.0 connection..?

1) USB 3.0 is faster than the FireWire 800

2) USB 3.0 will not become incompatible like FireWire

ProfessorVideo wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. The RAID box is an old G-Tech G Speed and sadly doesn’t have USB-C, only USB-A other than FireWire 800. I am using it as a photo archive, so speed is not a prime requirement.

+1 to MartinR and HWTech's advice.

If the FireWire connection stops working thru the OWC hub.

Then your options are the slightly slower USB 2.0 connection and a USB-A to USB-C adapter or upgrade to a new RAID box.

Are you using a Firewire device, or a Firewire port/cable/adapter for anything? If not, then you are not using Firewire. If you are using Firewire, then do not upgrade past macOS 15.x Sequoia since macOS 26 Tahoe no longer supports Firewire.

Just because a device has a Firewire port does not mean anything if nothing is connected to the Firewire port or connector.

ProfessorVideo wrote:

Thanks for all the advice. The RAID box is an old G-Tech G Speed and sadly doesn’t have USB-C, only USB-A other than FireWire 800. I am using it as a photo archive, so speed is not a prime requirement.

Check the drive's USB speed specs. USB-C and USB-A are just types of connectors, they do not indicate the speed. Although I suspect your old G-Speed only supports USB 2.0, which is slower than FW800.

There are cables & plug adapters that can change from USB-A to USB-C connectors.

I suggest that at this point it's probably a good idea to look into replacing the G-Speed drive.

ProfessorVideo wrote:

Looking at available RAID boxes in my price range (ie EBay) they are mostly equipped with either Thunderbolt 2 or USB-3 ports. These both have different connectors to the USB-C on my M1 MBP. It is not clear to me if they simply require a converter cable?

It is easy to convert between the old USB-A connector and the modern USB-C connector. There are lots of such plug & cable changers on the market. If the enclosures you are looking at have the old-style USB-A connector, you can use an inexpensive plug changer. Apple makes one. I like these from OWC. In both cases you would also need a USB cable. Or you could just get a USB cable with the appropriate USB-A connector on one end and a USB-C connector on the other; I like these from Monoprice. Or you might just use an existing USB cable with a plug adapter like this.

Thunderbolt is another story. TB 1 & 2 used a "miniDisplayPort" connector. TB 3 & 4 use the USB-C connector. But to change between them you need an actual Thunderbolt adapter, there is no plain plug or cable changer for Thunderbolt.