No notification before Time Machines deletes old backups if it runs out of space - really ?

That's how Time Machine works. ime Machine makes hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month, and weekly backups for all previous months. The oldest backups are deleted when your backup disk is full.

If you wish to retain more backup details over time, you'll need a larger drive.

Ferdinand Schinagl wrote:

I appreciate John's metaphor, but I'd rather know right away when my backup software runs out of space than learn about it when I need to retrieve a file, and (in my case) months of backups have been wiped.

Time Machine is a backup system designed for Apple’s consumer Macintosh product. If you have more strict data retention requirements that require a guaranteed recovery of files for a given time period, then Time Machine isn’t going to work for you.

The only people who have such requirements work in government and/or regulated industries. They can use a Mac, but it is the responsibility of their IT staff to find a 3rd party backup system, or implement one from scratch, that meets those requirements. Those people have stuff and budgets, so it’s not a problem.

I for one think it is better to be informed than to remain ignorant. Losing old backups is not good but I still could have done something to avoid losing more if only had I known.

But you were informed. For most people having a backup, any backup, is more valuable than having all old backups. It is better to delete the old ones than to stop backups altogether and wait for the user to buy a new hard drive. If the user had already used a drive that was too small, then they probably aren’t going to replace it in a timely manner. So for most people, the best option is to delete the old backups, o tidy the user, and keep going.

Also, muguy’s statement "you just need a bigger disk" defies utility. Obviously more space is required to backup more data. That's the nature of backups whether incremental or otherwise. But consider that there is no disk big enough to allow you to tell when TM starts to delete backups if it does not care to inform you. All you can do is to check with TM manually on a regular basis – just what we all expect from our beloved computers, right?

People have been posting questions about Time Machine backups in this forum since the day it was introduced. By far, the #1 biggest problem has always been use of a backup drive that is too small. The smaller the drive, the more problems users will have. But big drives cost big money and consumers don’t like to spend money.

Time Machine is very efficient. With a sufficiently large hard drive that is 3 times the size of the hard drive you are backing up, you can expect your backups to outlast their physical media. The drive will physically fail before it starts deleting old backups. Just get yourself a bigger hard drive.

Ferdinand Schinagl wrote:

Does somebody have any info on the intended system (Monterey) behaviour in such situations. In my experience TM (or some other part of the OS) does NOT automatically notify users that old backups will be deleted.

Time Machine is working as intended.

Time Machine has never notified the user it's about to delete old and expired backups. All it will ever show is the timespan of restorable backups.

Time Machine guarantees an absolute minimum of one and only one complete, restorable system backup. More than that is "nice to have" but not guaranteed. It has always been so.

At some point in TM's evolution informing the user the backup range had been shortened was a selectable option. I can only surmise it was removed because that information was deemed not useful. Telling you after the fact is like telling airline passengers "the boarding doors are now closed so if you hear this announcement you're out of luck." Yet they still do that.

Worse case - the User ( you ) will presented an obscure Message along the lines of, " There s not Enough Space to make a TM Backup "

That would indicated that the Destination drive may or may not really Full but the Internal Drive has run out of space to hold all the Snap Shot that TM Backup utility makes Before it is transferred to the intended Drive.

If theTM Drive is truly Full and it has not " Deleted Oldest Snap Shots "

In either case - it usually good to have the Destination Drive with at least 2 1/2 Greater Drive Capacity than the Internal Drive.

That and have an On-hand additional Drive available to be used and Put aside the Original Drive in Safety Deposit Box of Bank for safe keeping.

John Galt wrote:

etresoft wrote:

People have been posting questions about Time Machine backups in this forum since the day it was introduced.

Since that time they have also insisted upon doing things with TM that it was never designed to do.

By far, the #1 biggest problem has always been use of a backup drive that is too small.

When people fail to understand TM's purpose, fail to comply with its requirements, or generally expect it to do something unsupported (such as in this Discussion) they tend to conclude it's no good, it's worthless, unreliable, etc. Promulgation of those misconceptions results in others foregoing its use. If that's not TM's #1 problem it's a close second.

Time Machine is so simple to use. Just plug in an external drive and follow the prompts. Funny how we see so few reports of problems with Time Machine from people doing that. But then, that applies to just about every post here in the forums, doesn't it? 😄

I for one think it is better to be informed than to remain ignorant.

Great! In that case the solution is to obtain and affix a Post-It™ Note or generic equivalent to the TM backup drive. On it, write the following:

"This backup drive is running out of space."

You have then been informed. Because once you start using a backup drive, it starts running out of space in the same manner as a car is always running out of gas. The only time that does not occur is when you are not using either one.

Problem solved.

Losing old backups is not good but I still could have done something to avoid losing more if only had I known.

Another suggestion: Create a sign, glossy poster, or piece of embroidery that states the following:

"Time Machine is not an archival system."

Maybe add some subtext in smaller print below it reiterating the fact that it never has been, and never will be. Hang that reminder in a prominent place on your office wall so that you never forget it. At any time, your several months or years worth of nice comfortable backups could be wiped out, leaving the one and only one backup Time Machine guarantees. This has happened, and will happen, and is guaranteed to happen unless and until you come to terms with that fact of life.

If you want an archival system, then implement an archival system. Problem #2, solved.

Best wishes.

etresoft wrote:

People have been posting questions about Time Machine backups in this forum since the day it was introduced.

Since that time they have also insisted upon doing things with TM that it was never designed to do.

By far, the #1 biggest problem has always been use of a backup drive that is too small.

When people fail to understand TM's purpose, fail to comply with its requirements, or generally expect it to do something unsupported (such as in this Discussion) they tend to conclude it's no good, it's worthless, unreliable, etc. Promulgation of those misconceptions results in others foregoing its use. If that's not TM's #1 problem it's a close second.