sorting Apple Music is broken thread 254237538

So I figured this out.


Bob Marley & The Wailer's "Legend" was one of my albums with a botched Album Artist sort. It kept showing up under B in Library->Artists instead of M.


Coincidentally I noticed I had songs downloaded from 3 other albums of his that weren't in my Library... or so I thought. They were in Apple's Roots Reggae Essentials playlist.


On a whim I removed the playlist from my Library and instantly Bob Marley sorted correctly in Library->Artists.


So yeah, metadata from songs in random Apple Music playlists that you add to your library will apparently always botch your custom sort order. And the metadata in those songs is not editable.


Definitely still a bug, but it's nice to know finally what's going on and why it appears so random.


I suppose I'll file a feedback now to close the loop.


this was what kimballisms wrote in this thread

question

did you already get a feedback from Apple?


Peter S.


[Personal Information Edited by Moderator]


MacBook Pro 13″, macOS 10.15

Posted on Jan 6, 2023 06:42 AM

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7 replies

Jan 25, 2023 03:16 AM in response to peetiesS

I've been using iTunes since, I think, version 6. If I recall correctly Album Artist was introduced in version 7. Before that iTunes had issues whenever there was a guest or featured artist as that would break up an album into multiple parts. Even when Album Artist was added they didn't copy the behaviour to iPod classic, so if you wanted neat listings on that you had to use the same value for artist across an album, or use the part of a compilation option. If you read through my article Grouping tracks into albums you should see that there is a switch under View > Column Browser > Use Album Artists (use the Songs view if needed to access this option) that modifies the behaviour of the Artists section slightly. With it enabled all values of Album Artist are listed, otherwise it is all values of Artist. I recommend this option is switched on as that gives views where complete albums are listed in one place in list.


I'm not quite sure when the sorting fields were introduced, but they were there in iTunes 7 when I got seriously invested in fixing up my library. When sorting a view by artist it is typically the order I gave previously, i.e. the first non-empty value from Sort Album Artist, Album Artist, Sort Artist, and Artist. I've not double-checked, but presumably when Use Album Artists is not in force that might switch to the first non-empty value from Sort Artist and Artist. There used to be some right-click options that would let you set sort options on a single track, and then apply these to all tracks with matching primary values across your library, but they seem to have disappeared at some point. I will typically use the column browser and step through artists and albums where I can quickly spot and correct discrepancies.


I think the main thing to understand here is that metadata is messy, and generally inconsistent. If you want things to be neat and tidy you cannot rely on perfect data coming from the iTunes Store or the Gracenotes CDDB database, you have to put in some effort, tweaking spellings to make everything consistent, and setting custom sort values if you want artists sorted by their surnames, etc. And each time you add new items to your library you may need to make corrections so that they follow your house rules. Consistency is key. I have a number of scripts at https://samsoft.org.uk/iTunes/scripts.asp that I've written over the years to help myself and others apply such rules more efficiently than is possible by hand.


I use Apple Music and don't seem to have any particular trouble editing metadata to make my library the way that I want it, however there is a potential issue when you've edited metadata for purchases as this can sometimes revert to the information held in the store. When I spot this I hide the purchase from my purchase history so that my own matched copy has precedence.


I have sometimes called iTunes the logic puzzle that keeps on giving. Just when you think you understand exactly how it works Apple will make some change behind the scenes, and it is time to adapt again.


tt2

Jan 25, 2023 09:08 AM in response to peetiesS

I think iTunes/Music are flexible enough to get things organized, if not exactly they way that you want, at least somewhere close to it if you compromise a little. My ideas of what I consider ideal metadata don't have to agree with other people. E.g. I Like All My Titles In Strict Title Case, when I list a featured artist it is always [Feat. Artist], other comments about a recording go in square brackets, e.g. [Live], I have subfolders in my media folder for Comedy, Classical, and Soundtracks. I could go on. I don't think it is realistic to expect Apple to cater to all of our individual wants. I'd like all of my solo artists to be sorted in Surname, Forename order, but with 65,000 tracks that isn't a job I'm prepared to do by hand. I have done it for classical composers however, which was manageable.


See https://dougscripts.com/itunes/scripts/ss.php?sp=mxartisttolastfirst for a Mac script that can help with the task of setting suitable sort values for tracks in batch mode.


If you have suggestions for how the Music app can be improved use Feedback - macOS - Apple.


tt2

Jan 22, 2023 02:57 AM in response to peetiesS

Searching on the internet and in this discussion group has informed me today about the main reason I believe that sorting on last name, first name will be broken when you adjust your music library with music of an artist where you used the sorting tag for last name. If the album artist tag of the importing numbers is filled in, then your careful build library is broken. And I believe it will be broken for more than one artist if you adjust a playlist with more artists.

The main reason is that Apple Music like ITunes before, used the album artist tag as first sorting tag. The work around is to delete the information after you have adjust new numbers to your library. The last day I have contact some people in the Netherlands of Apple about this problem, they know that this is an issue in the users community, but asked me to send feedback to Apple. I will try again to convinced this people to do the question to the Apple headquarters coming week, now knowing the exact reason.

Jan 22, 2023 03:42 AM in response to peetiesS

Hi there,


Artist sorting is generally on the basis of the first non-empty value from Sort Album Artist, Album Artist, Sort Artist, and Artist. If you want Bob Marley to sort under M and not B then you should consistently set the Sort Album Artist and Sort Artist values to say Marley, Bob or Marley & The Wailers, Bob. Likewise set Sort Composer when applicable. Album Artist is used to link tracks from an album when individual artist details may differ on some tracks. See Grouping tracks into albums for more.


tt2

Jan 23, 2023 01:23 AM in response to turingtest2

Turingtest2 i understand what your are writing it was you information what makes me clear what is going on when after adding music to the library arranged that the careful build sorting on last name is broken, every time you must have a look on the adding numbers if there is text in the tag album artist If so i must delete that and my sorting is right again. I find that personally wrong of Apple, when they have adjust the sorting tag in the past in ITunes they had also makes clear with a preference that sorting on album artist etc is in the last order and sorting on tag sorting artist is the first one in the library!

Jan 25, 2023 08:30 AM in response to turingtest2

Steve thank you very much for writing in detail the work around to make a music library sustain when you using the sorting tag for artist.


But what do you think must Apple not make a try to change the program, that we not needed anymore a workaround. Give the user a preference where he can choice if he wants to use the sorting tab and then changed the order of sorting? And give a script-menu that after importing music you can add from the meta tag artist or album artist the tags for sorting on last, first name?


Peter

Feb 20, 2023 09:38 AM in response to turingtest2

The last weeks I updated all my devices and computers to the last version. But the sorting in my smart playlist stills be wrong, I want the sorting on last name first name; and the new sorting possibilities in the last version gives no solution. And for me there was no logical reason. I had filled in everywhere the sorting artist and sorting artist album tags, but still some artist where sort on the first name.


But this morning I did filled in also by a wrong ‘artist’ the composer sorting tag, and by a wonder the wrong artist goes to the right place. It is still not logical, some artist needed it and some needed it not at all, but ok I can live with the work around. Now I control in the song view all my smart playlists, I have 25 playlist with total 7.000 songs, and by a wrong sorting I search this artist with the command-b browser function select all songs and fill in also the sorting composer tag by copy past the artist last first name. But Why Apple????

if I sort on artist name and I filled in the artist sorting tag than must that be enough!!!


ok hopefully gives this message an solution for other people, it has frustrated me over many weeks


Peter

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sorting Apple Music is broken thread 254237538

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