MacBook Pro M4 with thunderbolt 5 and portable monitor

I already had that hub, I have 15 different thunderbolt cables of varying lengths, I have about 12 USB-C cables, capable of delivering display signals, also varying lengths, I have tested every single one of them and nothing works, and the one factor involved that seems to make the difference is that it is a thunderbolt five port.

every single one of my cables works with thunderbolt four on the M4 Mac mini. But again, as has been said, not a single of my 27 cables works when using the thunderbolt five ports on the M4 Pro Mac mini.

Thanks for your armchair input, but I think I will stick with hard results from my actual tests.

Though I cannot conclusively say that it is SPECIFICALLY because of thunderbolt five, I think we can all agree that something about the thunderbolt five models of the M4 Macs seem to have an issue connect connecting to portable displays and delivering signal.

Could this be a software issue? Maybe. maybe it’s a firmware thing that just needs an update. Could it be something else? Sure. But as of right now, based on every piece of evidence presented, it seems like Macs with thunderbolt five are not able to deliver a display signal along with the power to a portable display without that hub I am using or a similar one as the in between.

I get that in a perfect world, based on how things should be working in theory with thunderbolt five as you have explained in your other comments, it “shouldn’t” be an issue. But, here we are. 🤷‍♂️

Hello all,

I just had a 3rd call with Apple tier 2 (3?) support. Engineering requested additional diagnostic data capture form my M1 MacBook Air, as well as photos/video of the cable, display, and a side by side comparison of the display being plugged in and working on the M1, and failing to detect on the M4 Pro.

I did a video of the display in every combination of USB-C ports on both laptops, it works in every combination on the M1, does not work in every combination on the M4 Pro, and apple engineering now has diagnostic data collected while the device is being plugged into both.

What engineering has said from the data collected - on the M4 Pro it detects as power only and no display device is found.

No guarantee I get a "real" update after this, but the support rep said she will reach back out if she hears back from engineering - was a 2 day turnaround last time.

The support rep did indicate they do not really monitor these community supports groups, I did reference this thread, but for this to get traction, people need to actually submit a case and jump through the hoops like I did. YMMV

https://youtu.be/qT21TXzKD0c

USB-C DisplayPort Alt Mode Troubleshooting with M4 Pro

Same problem, though it DOES work if you use a usb c display hub in between the portable monitor and the thunderbolt 5 ports. No power passthrough needed.

I Have access to both a M4 pro Mac mini and an M4 Mac mini. It works perfectly without the hub on the M4 Mac mini. It doesn’t work on the M4 Pro at all unless I throw the hub in between.

The person that said don’t get distracted by thunderbolt five and that it wasn’t the issue, ngl rn it looks like 5 is the issue.

the hub I used is this one off amazon

https://a.co/d/gH16MI0

I just submitted a support ticket with Apple on this. These monitors and hubs should not have stopped working just because we upgraded to a TB5 Mac system. As a previous respondent stated, if you hook up an external power source to the monitor, while connected to the MBP, then monitor will work. That is an untenable workaround because it defeats the purpose of using portable monitors.

Let's hope this gets addressed ASAP.

I have the m4 pro MacBook Pro. Had the same issue as you describe when connecting my espresso 17inch pro portable display. Screen didn’t work until you connect a power source to the display. Upon contacting espresso display customer service they told me the problem was due to software comparability with the new usb c ports (tb5) in the Mac’s. They are flashing their displays with new firmware which solves the problem. Mine was not flashed before it was delivered. I think because it came from their depot in the eu (it was delivered in a couple of days) and not directly from the manufacturer. Because I recently bought my display (one with old firmware) they send me a replacement one which was flashed for the new Mac USB c ports( took a coole of weeks to arrive) And the new display works fine now. This shows that the problem is a software one. That a company as espresso display managed to solve the problem in a couple of weeks after the new MacBook pro’s came on the market and with the right firmware it works perfectly. I think that Apple should react as quick and decisive to solve this problem for their users. As this example proves that the problem is easily corrected with a software update if the MacBook and a new display port should be reverse compatible. So I think we all should make some noise so Apple resolves this problem asap.

I just wanted to add a few additional data points to this bug. I work in cybersecurity and am a long-time Mac user and power user. My travel laptop is an M3 Macbook Air. My daily driver between work and home is a M4 Macbook Pro. I recently purchased a UPERFECT 4K portable monitor, and my M4MBP would not recognize it without the monitor's auxiliary USB-C power adapter and cable plugged into an outlet. My M3 Macbook Air recognizes the monitor without the monitor's auxiliary power plugged in and works perfectly. I suspected the cheap USB-C cables that were shipped with the monitor, even though they worked perfectly on the M3 Macbook Air. I ran out to Target and purchased an Apple Thunderbolt 4 cable, and I still had the same issue with the M4 Macbook Pro. So, what can we infer from these data points?

• The Macbook Air has 2 USB4 ports that support : (Charging, DisplayPort, and Thunderbolt3)

• The M4 Macbook Pro has 3 Thunderbolt 5 (USB-c) ports that support (Charging, DisplayPort and Thunderbolt5)

The issue, in my mind, lies with Apple with their implementation of TB5. Disappointing, to say the least. I am now returning the monitor to Amazon and the TB4 cable to Target... Uggh!

Did a couple longer calls with Apple support today - they asked me to take the new M4 Pro MBP to an apple store, so I dropped by one this afternoon. We tested with various displays and their fancy TB5 cables to rule all that out - the Apple in-store technician agreed that the DP over USB-C should work on a M4 Pro MBP as it does on other models. They asked me to call Apple back and submit a report - so I called apple back, they did a diagnostics data capture, and are hoping to have engineering take a look and get back to me next Wednesday (estimate). Hoping maybe this will be resolved in a future firmware update.

M1 Macbook Air specs: MacBook Air (M1, 2020) - Technical Specifications - Apple Support

Display Support:

Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at millions of colors and:

• One external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz

Thunderbolt 3 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB-C
• VGA, HDMI, DVI, and Thunderbolt 2 output supported using adapters (sold separately)

M4 Pro MAcBook Pro specs: MacBook Pro (14-inch, M4 Pro or M4 Max, 2024) - Tech Specs - Apple Support

Display Support:

M4 Pro

• Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at 1 billion colors and:
• Up to two external displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt, or one external display with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
• One external display supported at 8K resolution at 60Hz or one external display at 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI

M4 Max

• Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at 1 billion colors and:
• Up to four external displays: Up to three external displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 4K resolution at 144Hz over HDMI
• Up to three external displays: Up to two external displays with 6K resolution at 60Hz over Thunderbolt and one external display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or one external display with 4K resolution at 240Hz over HDMI

Thunderbolt 4 digital video output

• Support for native DisplayPort 1.4 output over USB-C

Thunderbolt 5 digital video output

• Support for native DisplayPort 2.1 output over USB-C

HDMI digital video output

• Support for one display with up to 8K resolution at 60Hz or 4K resolution at 240Hz

As indicated and cited above, both list support for DP over USB-C

Monitor in question in my particular scenario:

[Edited by Moderator]

manojfromdelta wrote:

I have 14" M4 MacBook Pro with the M4 Pro chip (14 core CPU/20 core GPU). As per attached screen shot the system info shows it as havingThunderbolt/USB 4. Why does it not say Thunderbolt/USB 5? I note that the speed is listed as up to 120 Gb/s.

As far as I know, there is no USB5. USB4 version 2.0 is the latest USB specification. Apple was one of the first adopters of the original USB4, and all Apple Silicon Macs support USB4 – though I don't know whether any of them support USB4 version 2.0.

There are five versions of Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt 1 & 2 lived on Mini DisplayPort connectors. Thunderbolt 3 through 5 live on the USB-C one.

So, among Macs with USB-C ports,

• Some Intel Macs have Thunderbolt 3 ports.
• Some Apple Silicon Macs have Thunderbolt 3 / USB4 ports.
• Some Apple Silicon Macs have Thunderbolt 4 / USB4 ports.
• Some Apple Silicon Macs have Thunderbolt 5 / USB4 ports.

My guess is that whomever wrote the code for the System Information dialog was being a bit lazy and decided that they would use a generic title, rather than taking extra effort to special-case the title according to the Mac upon which the code was running.

This is close to showing it's not just you.

MacbookPro 2019 USB-C

Portable monitor with no external power--just plugged into the MB port

Using USB-C Cable. Perfect

Using cable that came with monitor. Perfect

Using the NEW APPLE BRANDED TB5 CABLE. Perfect.

New MacBook Pro M4 Pro

Portable monitor with no external power--just plugged into the MB port

Using USB-C Cable. No signal

Using cable that came with monitor. No signal

Using the NEW APPLE BRANDED TB5 CABLE. No signal

Nice discovery. I've been unable to get my existing 18" portable monitor to work unplugged and found that plugging in the auxilary power works with the TB cable. I did come across this 4k portable monitor works with TB5 without having to plug in the auxiliary power.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083ZFG1PF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

All of this is rather frustrating but at least we have a workaround.

SOLUTION, more or less, I have the same Problem with my Verbatim 4k Portable Monitor but if you connect the USB C and the HDMI than the Monitor worked. still not the perfect solution but like this its portable and you don't need a Powercable or Fuse or so when you are on the Road or so.

Hope a Solution comes because I bought my Monitor new and I don't wanna have to buy another one because of this.

Yes, it is a different machine. But:

• If what you are saying is true....why did that same portable monitor work with the non powered USB C display hub I used as the in-between? If the issue was power as you claim, why would the NON-powered hub placed between the thunderbolt 5 port and the portable monitor make it work suddenly?
• The reality of our situation is that, regardless of how things 'should work', portable monitors that have worked on my M1 Max MBP, my brothers M2 Pro MBP, my friend's M2 Pro Mac mini, my plain M4 Mac mini....those same monitors are not working on the M4 Pro Mac mini. Nor is the portable monitor working on OP's Mac. Regardless of what is being said, there is a change in results based on the introduction of the M4 Pro featuring thunderbolt 5 ports.
• Why are you trying using numbers to support the idea that it shouldn't work on the M4 Pro Mac Mini but then speculative logic to support why it did work on the plain M4 and calling it 'lucky'? This isn't super helpful. I am trying to provide useful information based on real world results. Saying something "should" or "shouldn't" work while staring at results in the face doesn't really bring anything to the table here, nor does calling something "lucky".
• Where did you get the numbers saying the Mac mini wasn't designed to deliver a certain amount of power? I am not calling you wrong, I just don't know where you got that from. I don't see it listed in the device specs and as you pointed out, the OP's machine and the Mac mini are different machines so we can't really rely on the numbers provided in this thread.

mmn_slc wrote:

The Thunderbolt 5 specification requires that a port provide a minimum of 15W of power for accessories. https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt_5_TechBrief_2023_09_12.pdf page 2.

Even if we assume that 15W is always available, the monitor originally discussed in this thread (a 17" UPERFECT 4K monitor)

• Had a user manual that said to use a separate power supply ("4K monitor needs higher voltage power; for a more stable power supply, it is recommended to use our original PD adapter to power" … and … "The power consumption of 4K monitor is relatively larger, and an external PD power supply is required.")
• Drew 50W of power when attached to a meter and a USB power bank (as shown in a photo in this thread)

My external monitors (Arzopa Z1FC) require a supply of 5v capable of 2.4A according to the manual. https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0570/9280/0675/files/Arzopa_Z1FC.pdf?v=1707041874 But, the ports on my Macbook Pro M4 Pro do not work with the monitors with a single cable (even with a USB SS20 cable which can handle 5A.)

Arzopa – Arzopa Z1FC 144Hz Portable Gaming Monitor | 16.1" Screen

There may be reasons other than power.

In one of these threads, someone reported that their portable monitor worked after it got a firmware update from the manufacturer. That would suggest that there was a bug in the old firmware, in the code for negotiating either the display connection or the power one, and that the new firmware fixed it.

Maybe something like that is going on here.